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Author Topic: Extinct beer styles  (Read 22847 times)

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Offline James Kitchens

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Extinct beer styles
« on: February 18, 2009, 02:34:14 AM »
Been reading up on some beer history lately, and have been interested in checking into some extinct beer styles for our homebrew group. Obviously, these won't be easy to try to replicate and won't be batches we try any time soon. Plus, it most likely will not even happen. Not to mention the real issue would seem to be actually FINDING a recipe somewhere. I figure the search is worthwhile on its own merits, even if no Nucular Brewing batches come out of it.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or any experience with trying brews like this? I know DFH does a lot of these, like the Midas Touch and the other historically researched recipes they do. That was actually the inspiration for this wild goose chase for me.

So far, I've found a lot of German styles that have dropped off the brewing lists of brewpubs and brewers. I did find some decent resources too.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/extinct%20beer%20styles

http://blog.brewsession.com/2008/04/23/the-missing-beer-styles-making-it-into-brewsession/ (not technically "extinct" but missing from the BJCP guidelines)

http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/lager19.htm

http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/brewing.pdf

http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/gerstyle.htm
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Offline bakes

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 10:12:52 AM »
My friend Bob brewed a Rotbusser from a recipe in one of the beer mnagazines, and it was outstanding. Basically a German red ale brewed with oats.
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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 10:22:01 AM »
My friend Bob brewed a Rotbusser from a recipe in one of the beer mnagazines, and it was outstanding. Basically a German red ale brewed with oats.

Well, he is your friend.  The style might not have been extinct at the time.

Offline JJ

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 10:25:39 AM »
My friend Bob brewed a Rotbusser from a recipe in one of the beer mnagazines, and it was outstanding. Basically a German red ale brewed with oats.

Well, he is your friend.  The style might not have been extinct at the time.
:lol:
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Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 11:06:11 AM »
Radical Brewing has some recipes as well.  Not sure if I would call them extinct since the publication, but I have tried a one that I know of.

Offline Surly Duff

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 11:13:12 AM »
Schell's does lots of stuff with styles that have been long dead.  Like this year's Snowstorm (Weihnachtsbier).  Previous Snowstorm brews have also been old styles.  Their anniversary series has brought out some interesting styles.  No. 1 was Einbecker Dopplebock, No. 3 was Bavarian Forest Dampfbier, and No. 5 is Hopfenmalz.  Should be interesting to see what the next 3 beers in the anniversary series are.

As for recipes, I know the guys at Schell's found one of the recipes (the 1860 Einbecker Dopplebock I believe) while cleaning out an old room in the brewery.  It was on a malt package or something.  Guess that's the kinda stuff you have laying around when you're the 2nd oldest family owned brewery in the country and coming up on your 150th anniversary.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 11:18:14 AM by Surly Duff »
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Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 11:43:49 AM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 11:59:16 AM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

The only one I know of was the Schell's one that Surly Duff mentioned before which was limited draft only.

Offline Surly Duff

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 12:03:34 PM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

The only one I know of was the Schell's one that Surly Duff mentioned before which was limited draft only.

Really?  I suppose.

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Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 12:45:07 PM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

The only one I know of was the Schell's one that Surly Duff mentioned before which was limited draft only.

Really?  I suppose.


Just looked this up...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Steam_Beer

History of Steam Beer
There are many theories surrounding the name Steam Beer; for example, some say that the high carbonation of this style created a whistling sound in the kegs, or that the coolships used by the breweries gave off clouds of steam on brewing days.

However, many early American brewers were German, and a separate German regional beer style named Dampfbier, literally "steam beer", existed. Dampfbier, like American steam beer, was fermented at unusually high temperatures with a nontraditional yeast; in that case, a Weizen yeast used for an entirely barley-based beer. The result was an extremely active fermentation, which reportedly made the fermenting wort appear to be steaming or boiling. This is the most likely explanation for the American name.

Offline bakes

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 10:13:20 PM »
My friend Bob brewed a Rotbusser from a recipe in one of the beer mnagazines, and it was outstanding. Basically a German red ale brewed with oats.

Well, he is your friend.  The style might not have been extinct at the time.
:lol:
:lol: :lol:

Plus he's older than I am. :bakes:
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Offline heckmanm

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 08:11:31 PM »
Radical Brewing has some recipes as well.  Not sure if I would call them extinct since the publication, but I have tried a one that I know of.
I was coming in here to post just that.  Excellent book, and it's by a Chicago guy (Randy Mosher). 
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Offline Jaysus

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2009, 10:22:37 AM »
How about a Grodziski?


http://www.beeryard.com/news/default.cfm?action=view&id=1169

Quote
March 02, 2009 - Yards, Iron Hill Combine To Make Rare Polish Beer for Philly Beer Week
    Steve Mashington of Yards Brewing Company and Justin Sproul of Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant's original Newark location have joined forces to brew Yards Smoked Polish Wheat, a Grodziski-style beer for Philly Beer Week.

    "As far as I know, this style has never been brewed in this country before," says Mashington, "and it is all but forgotten in its native land, Poland, as well. There are maybe one or two producers left in that country."

    Mashington's desire to brew the beer, which he describes as a "smokey, slightly tart wheat beer of very low alcohol," was part of the inspiration for the Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em smoked beer event at the Yards Brewery on Friday, March 13. He read about Grodzizkis in a Michael Jackson book and originally planned to brew it on the original small Yards brewing system which will be set up in a small corner of the new Delaware Avenue brewery for just such small-batch projects but when it became clear that setting up the mini-brewhouse was at least a year in the future, he shelved the idea.

    "Then, when I was at the Iron Hill Newark Cask Ale Event earlier this year, I started talking to Justin about it and how cool it would be to resurrect a dead style of beer. He got all excited and said `Let’s brew it here!' And that's just what we did."

    Both brewers began researching the style, determining that no one has made it since the early 1990s. Mashington found a recipe in a home brewing book by Randy Mosher, who provided further information that he had and confirmed that NO ONE had ever commercially produced a Grodziski in the USA.

    The original recipes we could find called for almost 100% smoked wheat malt," Mashington says. "Since we didn't have the time or resources to smoke 500lbs of wheat malt, we had to sort of reverse engineer this beer. Beechwood smoked malt, wheat malt and some acidulated malt highlighted the grain bill. We elected for a Kolsh/Alt yeast thinking that was probably the closest thing to a yeast strain you would find in Poland at the time. Since this beer should not be hoppy, we figured on Northern Brewer and Saaz, but in very small quantities."--JACK CURTIN

Offline bakes

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 03:04:57 PM »
How about a Grodziski?


http://www.beeryard.com/news/default.cfm?action=view&id=1169

Quote
March 02, 2009 - Yards, Iron Hill Combine To Make Rare Polish Beer for Philly Beer Week
    Steve Mashington of Yards Brewing Company and Justin Sproul of Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant's original Newark location have joined forces to brew Yards Smoked Polish Wheat, a Grodziski-style beer for Philly Beer Week.

    "As far as I know, this style has never been brewed in this country before," says Mashington, "and it is all but forgotten in its native land, Poland, as well. There are maybe one or two producers left in that country."

    Mashington's desire to brew the beer, which he describes as a "smokey, slightly tart wheat beer of very low alcohol," was part of the inspiration for the Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em smoked beer event at the Yards Brewery on Friday, March 13. He read about Grodzizkis in a Michael Jackson book and originally planned to brew it on the original small Yards brewing system which will be set up in a small corner of the new Delaware Avenue brewery for just such small-batch projects but when it became clear that setting up the mini-brewhouse was at least a year in the future, he shelved the idea.

    "Then, when I was at the Iron Hill Newark Cask Ale Event earlier this year, I started talking to Justin about it and how cool it would be to resurrect a dead style of beer. He got all excited and said `Let’s brew it here!' And that's just what we did."

    Both brewers began researching the style, determining that no one has made it since the early 1990s. Mashington found a recipe in a home brewing book by Randy Mosher, who provided further information that he had and confirmed that NO ONE had ever commercially produced a Grodziski in the USA.

    The original recipes we could find called for almost 100% smoked wheat malt," Mashington says. "Since we didn't have the time or resources to smoke 500lbs of wheat malt, we had to sort of reverse engineer this beer. Beechwood smoked malt, wheat malt and some acidulated malt highlighted the grain bill. We elected for a Kolsh/Alt yeast thinking that was probably the closest thing to a yeast strain you would find in Poland at the time. Since this beer should not be hoppy, we figured on Northern Brewer and Saaz, but in very small quantities."--JACK CURTIN


That beer has to absolutely kick ass when paired with a good kielbasa - none of this Hillshire Farms Ron Jaworski crap, but one with big ass chunks of ham in it that you can see.
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Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 09:54:51 PM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

The only one I know of was the Schell's one that Surly Duff mentioned before which was limited draft only.

Destihl in Bloomington-Normal IL brewed one last year too, I got a growler :thumbup:

Offline James Kitchens

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2014, 01:25:17 PM »
Has anyone experimented with homebrewing extinct or near-extinct beer styles? For example, Gose used to be nearly extinct until one place in Germany resurrected it several years ago. There are actually a large number of English and German styles that fall into this category. The obvious limitation is finding a recipe for the style, which is hard. Just curious if anyone has done anything interesting that might be truly rare or nearly extinct in terms of styles they have tried in homebrewing. If I were to re-start homebrewing, I think is is the direction I would personally go with it.

(This post inspired by TT's recent homebrewing posts...)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 01:57:17 PM by James Kitchens »
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Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2014, 05:41:55 PM »
Kottbusser
Litchenhainer
Erntebier
Broyhan
Sour Bock
Sour Ofest
Hellesroggen
IPL
Gratzer

Still need to make a Mumme.  We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2014, 08:59:16 PM »
We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

bottling or draft only?
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Offline GatorBeerGeek

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2014, 08:39:08 AM »
Kottbusser
Litchenhainer

Had these two and a Gose all at one place in Tampa the day before Hunahpu.  It seems thee are really into doing the obscure German styles.  Rapp Brewing was the place.

I started out getting their 6 beer sampler and while filling out the card I said, "Fuck it, Im doing 9" due to the wide variety of styles you rarely see.  That proved to be an excellent decision.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2014, 10:41:17 AM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

Offline James Kitchens

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2014, 11:16:36 AM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

They do looking interesting. I assume they have a tasting room or something and do draft only? Haven't seen bottles anywhere, although maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
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Offline rhoadsrage

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2014, 11:19:22 AM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

They do looking interesting. I assume they have a tasting room or something and do draft only? Haven't seen bottles anywhere, although maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
They have different names on the bottles   Troublesome = Gose= "blended wheat beer"   Scurry =  Kottbuster = "dark honey beer"

I have to admit they are delicious but there bottle descriptions made me really underwelm.  I don't want to drink another "honey beer" but that one is tasty.   :ale:
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Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2014, 11:40:16 AM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

They do looking interesting. I assume they have a tasting room or something and do draft only? Haven't seen bottles anywhere, although maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
[/b]
They have different names on the bottles   Troublesome = Gose= "blended wheat beer"   Scurry =  Kottbuster = "dark honey beer"

I have to admit they are delicious but there bottle descriptions made me really underwelm.  I don't want to drink another "honey beer" but that one is tasty.   :ale:
Sixers of these two, they are in black/grey/white holders, with simple illustrations.



Draft around town of various rotating experimental and seasonal stuff.
They did bottle a house beer for the Field Museum called Tooth & Claw, which is a Czech Pils... spotted bottles in Elmwood Park, but haven't seen elsewhere around town. Looks like there are labels approved for Apex Predator as well, a tart saison.

Offline James Kitchens

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2014, 12:10:26 PM »
Thanks. I might go out today and dig around for some.
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Offline rhoadsrage

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2014, 01:49:13 PM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

They do looking interesting. I assume they have a tasting room or something and do draft only? Haven't seen bottles anywhere, although maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
[/b]
They have different names on the bottles   Troublesome = Gose= "blended wheat beer"   Scurry =  Kottbuster = "dark honey beer"

I have to admit they are delicious but there bottle descriptions made me really underwelm.  I don't want to drink another "honey beer" but that one is tasty.   :ale:
Sixers of these two, they are in black/grey/white holders, with simple illustrations.



Draft around town of various rotating experimental and seasonal stuff.
They did bottle a house beer for the Field Museum called Tooth & Claw, which is a Czech Pils... spotted bottles in Elmwood Park, but haven't seen elsewhere around town. Looks like there are labels approved for Apex Predator as well, a tart saison.
Tooth & Claw a dry-hopped Pils.  :unsure:
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Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2014, 02:48:37 PM »
Off Color in Chicago brews a Gose and Kottbusser as their "flagship beers" but also brew all over the map.
For the Gose they blend a sour lactic beer with a basic pale wheat.

They do looking interesting. I assume they have a tasting room or something and do draft only? Haven't seen bottles anywhere, although maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
[/b]
They have different names on the bottles   Troublesome = Gose= "blended wheat beer"   Scurry =  Kottbuster = "dark honey beer"

I have to admit they are delicious but there bottle descriptions made me really underwelm.  I don't want to drink another "honey beer" but that one is tasty.   :ale:
Sixers of these two, they are in black/grey/white holders, with simple illustrations.

[img width=600]http://nikkijarecki.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/troublesome.jpg[/img

Draft around town of various rotating experimental and seasonal stuff.
They did bottle a house beer for the Field Museum called Tooth & Claw, which is a Czech Pils... spotted bottles in Elmwood Park, but haven't seen elsewhere around town. Looks like there are labels approved for Apex Predator as well, a tart saison.
Tooth & Claw a dry-hopped Pils.  :unsure:
:yes:

This article is where I picked up Czech Pils> Sort of a hybrid, since it's dry-hopped.
Quote
So off they went to make beer.  The parameters? It needed to be clean, straightforward and approachable for the main stream visitors that come through those museum doors. Nothing too hoppy, spicy, fruity or overly crazy. After four versions, they finally landed on the right one, something that John calls a Chicago style pilsner.  What is that?  In a sense, it’s a variation of a Czech Pils.

During my beer-making lesson with John I learned that there is one correct way to may a Pils.  Veer away from that, and you’ll create a variation...which is exactly what he wanted.  Inspired by a beer drinking experience he had in Belgium, he chose to dry hop this particular beer (most lagers or pils are not) and ultimately created the Chicago style pils.

This one too: http://www.timeout.com/chicago/food-drink/the-field-museums-latest-acquisition-a-new-beer-from-off-color
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 02:51:57 PM by emerge »

Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2014, 07:16:09 PM »
We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

bottling or draft only?

draft for sure.  We are working on trying to allocate a barrel to bottles just to sell at of the tap room.  Still working on details.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 08:44:50 PM »
Still need to make a Mumme.  We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

Came here to post this. Apparently there's only one commercial example?

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 11:04:51 PM »
Still need to make a Mumme.  We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

Came here to post this. Apparently there's only one commercial example?

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Offline BryanC

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2014, 09:45:06 AM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

Victory did one, draft only too, probably about the time you posted this.  It was good, I don't know if they've made it since.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2014, 09:46:35 AM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

Victory did one, draft only too, probably about the time you posted this.  It was good, I don't know if they've made it since.

Surly has actually done a Dampfbier too.

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2014, 09:48:42 AM »
Still need to make a Mumme.  We are brewing a Gose in 2 weeks.

Came here to post this. Apparently there's only one commercial example?

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Destihl made a Dampfbier years ago that was really good, but I'm not sure they ever brewed it again <_<

Offline howardf

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2014, 09:50:23 AM »
A buddy of mine made a Dampfbier last summer.  Suppose to be a German Steamed beer.  I don't know that many commerical examples.

Victory did one, draft only too, probably about the time you posted this.  It was good, I don't know if they've made it since.

I just saw a German Steam beer on somewhere, must have been Indiana City.

Offline rhoadsrage

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2014, 05:06:22 PM »
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."  --Mike Tyson

Offline flyingbison

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2014, 05:13:43 PM »

Gratzer



Titletown had one of these on recently (maybe still do). 

Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2014, 08:09:14 PM »
Dutch-Style Kuit Beer

Offline thickfreakness

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2014, 08:16:35 AM »
Live Oak is releasing a grodziskie next month.

Offline mr. furley

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2014, 09:22:08 AM »
what is that?
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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2014, 09:34:20 AM »

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2014, 11:37:10 PM »
Aarschotse Bruine



In my quest for compiling dead lambic breweries, I came across this style a year or two ago.
It's basically a regional variation on a Flemish Oud Bruin, a blend with more fresh brown ale in the mix, and a small portion of sour brown ale blended in. There's a retro revival one that got jumpstarted in 2012.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 05:19:56 PM by emerge »

Offline Oxymoron

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2014, 05:44:49 PM »
Pennsylvania Swankey

Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2014, 07:55:00 PM »
Pennsylvania Swankey
Safe to GIS? :unsure:
Sounds along the lines of rusty trombone or hot carl.

Offline fRed Scare

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2014, 09:55:43 AM »
Pennsylvania Swankey
Safe to GIS? :unsure:
Sounds along the lines of Cleveland Steamer
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Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2014, 10:02:46 AM »
Pennsylvania Swankey
Safe to GIS? :unsure:
Sounds along the lines of Cleveland Steamer
It was on the tip of my tongue :unsure:

Offline rhoadsrage

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2014, 10:16:39 AM »
oh yum, low alcohol licorice beer.  :absynthe shivers:

Swankey Ale

History: Originally brewed in Western Pennsylvania, Swankey Ale is a refreshing and relatively low alcohol ale with a strong licorice flavor. It was the favorite of many townsmen because it yielded such low alcohol yet refreshing taste and was loosely based on English Mild Ales of its time.

Tasting Notes: My Swankey Ale had a strong licorice flavor probably from two distinct anises and from pure turbinado sugars that kept the original gravity low. While keeping the body and flavor profile robust, my Swankey Ale offered a low alcohol content beer with a flavor profile consistent with high gravity ales without sacrificing any aspects to this historical brew.

3-4.1% ABV

15 IBU's

1.032 OG

http://beerof1812.com/failed.html
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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2014, 10:45:03 AM »
Pennsylvania Swankey
Safe to GIS? :unsure:
Sounds along the lines of Cleveland Steamer
Always cracks me up to see these in kitchens

For those that don't know what it is. There is a company named Cleveland that makes commercial steamers.
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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2014, 07:12:10 PM »
Pennsylvania Swankey
Safe to GIS? :unsure:
Sounds along the lines of Cleveland Steamer
It was on the tip of my tongue :unsure:
Ah, the old Schenectady Fudgepot...
Give a man a beer, and he'll waste an hour

Teach him to brew, and he'll waste a lifetime

Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2014, 10:52:08 PM »

Offline emerge

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2014, 02:58:12 PM »

Offline mr. furley

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Re: Extinct beer styles
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2014, 03:06:13 PM »
"put the cock in two quarts of fuck"?
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